AL
FORATfc : 4
eptember 7
WORKINGInterviews wjthj*
et al.
Before interviewing five of the principals in theontacted OGC
utttore the incecviewsi
'i without identifying myself', and s<ead in TIN' fUgaTlne that you have one of the Rush Lamp invert stamps. ee it?" He replied, "It'sold it.- Byonfirmed the Time and UPI reports that he said he hadtamp and his identity and location.
3. Onnterviewed!
| in I-
explained To each that the Inspector General had assumed responsibility for the official Agency investigation of the case and that my Job was (a) to assure the Inspector General that the investigation of the case by the Office of Security had been complete and proper, (b) to complete the investigation, if necessary, and (c) to recommend to the Inspector General what additional administrative action the Agency should take in the case, if any. I invited each of them to ask any questions or make any statements that they might want to make to me, as an impartial outside investigator, that they might not have wanted to make to previous investigators and questioners.
4. Each of them asked what the issue was,eplied to each of them that the issuesurrently undrstand them are:
" Were any laws broken when they sold the stamps or took possession of the stamps that they retained? Did those acts constitute conversion of government property for profit? Their Individual opinions or opinions that have been expressed by theur panjijor s
CONFIDEV
ace only opinions, but the Office of the General Counsel is cooperating with the Department of Justice in determining what laws, if any, were broken.
" Here anyroken by those who lied or failed to reveal the whole truth when they said that the unsold stamps were used as postage? (because itrime to lie to an official government investigator.)
5. IX interviewed first,
could pass any of this information along to any of the others so they would know what was happening
rLme forvcii lyauwi
explain. I [said that the investigator for the Bureau of Engraving "ana Printing, Mr. Oglesby, had threatened both
^jand f saying that if they did not tell him llioy worked, he would, take them to court. When:
'Mr. 0ale"3oJv and "Vve-rf'tually" asked
related trie
said that Mr. Oglesby could not nave taken them to court.
7. Questionsdesigned to pursue
the issues ot how many stampsreplaced ond when thoy were replaced.
| toldP ecided to step in: and everttually dia tell hia where they worjed. Mr. Oglesbv had lied?
incidentho
Question l_ Who bought the replacement
0-: How many did he hink it.
q. : how much money did you give him to buy the replacement
One hundred dollars.
So how many did you replace?
A.: ut 95 in the drawer.
hat did you do with the other ept them..
A
did the funds come from for the purchase? From my own funds. ften use my own funds to buy stamps when we need themurry and when getting an advanceould take too long.) Jnen the
f
thers reimbursed me,who did not pay because they used their
"annual leave to go to New Jersey-
Exactly when didthe replacements?
Probably Monday or Tuesday or the week folUjwingthe discovery of the possible misprint;nd IT ]went to the Annandale stamp dealer, we" replaced The^stamps before we knew they were valuable.
the other seven of you theeplacementelicve so.
share equally chc cost of
you get a receipt froa the post office when you bought the replacement stamps? do you haveid not keep it. whateed it for?
At what post office were the replacement stampson't know; usually we bought them at the Dunn Coring post office.
A
0 ft
At w(
replacementon't know.
Was it during the day or after working hours?
It was probably in the morning. He wouldn't have gone
after hours.
one
you would liko tohis thing hasroportion. s point
lhaa re1
answer any
6. Questions to establish whether or"hothe invert stamps were doneanswers. At thehad letairW
earned anuestions, but that questions were asked. At theere under cover intends to tell him my name.
iment time ands wil'li
were designed to activities in disposing of 'rnmejit time and_to check
_>
ttorney wanted
tated that to
what
f theasked in thopparently as he apparently requested.
Exactly when did you go to the Annandale stamp The same day we discovered the possible misprint, after work.
when waa this
L n
.: The came day.
ten was _this in relation to the day you called to look at the stamps?
what day did: Tho same day.
y the replacement
conpitmntlal
the
day did you andto new jersey?
n^xt dav or the day after that; april first or
the
what time of dayeplacement stamps? during the day, or after nours? during the day: during working hours.
do you know how many stamps were replaced? ninety-five.
who contributed to the cost oftfrearnow, allmyself,
7.
through
workK knows
because we used our annual leave to go to new jersey,
ow xs normal several
jinvoln rfc-rio at-ed matter
ay on work-related matters.
asked that any future contact be because none of the people wherehis situation. ontact each other
had the right to se lie said this incident bothered by the way os
stated at the outset that he believes he the stamps after they had been replaced, has been blown out ot proportion. he is has handled it: someone in os told him the stamps did and do belong to the us government. he does not believe that and welcomed my statement that doj was making that determindtion .
when exactly did you go to annandale?
early in the week. maybe wednesday. or thursday
after work.
can you give me the name ot the^ave his card,?
hen exactly did you go to new the following monday- i'm almost sure.
your
0,: you have said that you gave as far as you know, does yes, i'm almost sure he hasn't sold it.
issues
"ireaction to my outlining the rn! lying when he said the unso
he
o say that ne wai> stamps were used as postage; ot them were not. triefinq on howand contacted hiw-
lying when ne saia tncstill does not know thatnterviewed him, he thought co" respond in case the press got his it did not seemeal investigation where he was required to answer an investigator
questions fully. he said there was no criminal intent on his
CONFIu^SiLIAi.
pact. of his
Q
:
A.:
A.
Q-A.
0-A.
Questions directedlaim to have lost
1opy of your signed statement that you lost the stamp you kept. Do you still claim you lost it?
Yes.
Do you recognize the name No-
told the press that he bought one of the stamps IA man. YOU don't know him?
Questions
HO.
T(by telephone) :
give you to buy the
Bow much money did
replacement stamps/ Ninety-five dollars.
How many replacement stamps did you buy? Ninety-five.
What day did you buy the replacement stamps in relation to the day the misprint was noticed? The sane day.
At approximately what time of day did you buy the replacement stamps?
Betweennd 2. It might have been during my lunch hour.
0
Five of you have not turned in the stamps you kepi. Do you know if any of the stamps retained by any of you have been sold.?
o not know of any stamp sale by any of the five
A.
Q-A.
Q-A.
Q-A.
Q-A.
you know the name Yes.
In what connection? Ho was on television.
What did he do on television?
He was talking about the misprinted stamps.
What did he say about them?
di<
J3
I don't know. I didn't see the program.
hen how did you know about it
Jcack in the middle
told me about
art in the middlenis scMiwufce.)
ce
1
Tor
11. Time and attendance Office of Finance,
gnedours annual leave and
; igned
ravelled to New Jersey on 2
4 hours annual leave. Testimony taken by tne uurcau of Engraving and printing investigator supports the conclusion
f
5
S
i
Original document.
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